This past weekend, longtime veteran Zak Cummings decided to call it a career, retiring in front of his hometown crowd following a win over Ed Herman, who also hung up the gloves after the contest. Cummings discussed the experience, as well as the emotions surrounding it all, as he looks to move on to the next chapter of his career, which will still be very much involved in MMA. 

Check out the full interview in the video above, or read the transcript below.

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John Morgan: It is the newly retired Zak Cummings, I guess. Has that set in yet? I know it was a big decision in a big moment, but is it does it feel different today?

Zak Cummings: No. I’m still trying to – yeah, I don’t know. It definitely, it was the right call. I couldn’t imagine anything else, but I love this stuff, and it’s been, you know, it was too long. It was great to get in there. I mean, I could do it again easy, but man, I don’t know. I just, I know there was no topping that, and it just kind of seemed right.

JM: Yeah, you said it – the right call. I mean, as you said, you’re not going to create a more beautiful moment than that, right? I mean, obviously an incredible fight. I mean, absolute battle, to do it in front of your hometown, to have your family there. I guess what did make it OK for you? Like what triggered in your head to say it is OK to say ‘This is it’? Because as you said, I know you – like all fighters – you just love this stuff. You’d go to do it again this weekend if you could.

Zak Cummings: Yeah, for sure. You know, I don’t know. It was just the perfect storm, you know? The opportunity to do that in Kansas City – man, the crowd showed up. It was so loud. It was fun. You know, honestly, I feel like if I would’ve got the finish in the first round, I don’t know if I would have made the decision, but, like, you know, I felt great. My vision in there was spot on. Like, I had a good time. I got all three rounds in. I still got a finish. I got to compete against someone who I respect so much in Ed. There was so many different things that went into play, and like, you know, the fight was over, and I was looking around, and then Marc walked in and I was like, ‘Yeah, I can be done. I’m OK. I’m OK with this,’ and I think building up to the fight, I was talking about it, and the more I said it, the more I was OK with it, but I knew it was going to be a gametime decision. You know, I’m still trying to work through it mentally. I’ve got to figure out what makes me, me outside of this in retirement life, but yeah, we’ll see how it goes.

JM: That’s funny. I was going to ask you, it’s like you wake up on Monday morning, are you like, ‘Well, let’s go to the gym,’ or you’re like, ‘Well, no, I’ve got to chase business now,’ or I mean –

Zak Cummings: I mean, luckily for me, this sport’s my life, you know? I own a gym. This is the ninth year we’ve been open, so yeah, I was coaching practice on Monday. I was in the gym and just got back from the gym this morning, you know? I’m just kind of yelling a little bit. I can’t move right now. I’m a little a little banged up, a little sore, but yeah, I’ve got that. I actually have my own promotion on Saturday, so I’ve got to go set the cage up and get that going, so yeah, I mean it’s right back to business, but business is this sport. So yeah, I mean, this is my life still, and that’s not going to change.

JM: That’s awesome. So this back injury that you were dealing with, I mean, how close was that to ending your career for you? I mean, it was there the real possibility that you never competed again? Because I had heard from some people behind the scenes that it was pretty rough.

Zak Cummings: Yeah, it was bad. It was bad. I was bedridden for three months. Yeah, I mean, I had a 3-year-old girl that, like, just didn’t understand why I couldn’t pick her up. I couldn’t play, dance with – you know, the stuff we normally do. Had that. I had a baby on the way that like, you know, at the time, like there was no way I’d even be able to, like, help pick up, change, do anything with, so the timing for that one at least was OK. I was able to get surgery and I was able to start rehabbing and getting where I could stand up on my own and kind of be a little more upright stuff when the baby came, luckily. But yeah, there was there was a good three or four months there where I thought the new normal was me in pain all the time, not be able to get out of bed, hardly. My wife had to help me get dressed. Like, I couldn’t put my socks, my underwear on. Yeah, it was – the new normal was not anything I wanted to deal with at all, and I was really nervous that, you know, let alone, like, be able to train or fight like, I just thought, like, I didn’t know if I’d be able to exercise again without bad, bad pain and, you know, luckily – it took time – but little by little, I got more and more back, and I was able to just continue to increase the intensity and the mobility and everything I was doing just a little bit more and stuff and, you know, it all came together right at the right time when I was able to make this comeback fight.

JM: That’s crazy, man. So like, how mentally challenging was that? Right? It’s one thing to be like, well, I’m not healthy enough to go get in a cage fight. Like, I mean, OK, that’s a pretty tough undertaking, right? But to be like, I’m not even healthy enough to pick up my kid? I mean, something that we all just take for granted, I guess. You know what I mean? That that’s just how life is. I mean, just how mentally challenging was that for you?

Zak Cummings: It was bad, man. I’m a very positive person. I always try to look at, like, the right side and the positive side of any situation. I just try not to get too down on things and have things beat me up, but man, that – it was dark. It was a dark time. It was, like, I don’t want to throw around the term depression too much because I know how important that is to a lot of people, and I know a lot of people deal with it reoccurring and stuff like that, and I’m typically not that way, but man, when you’ve got a little girl looking at you and just not understanding, man, it breaks you down mentally and emotionally, and then then it got to a point where, you know, I started feeling better and was able to start try to pick her up and then, like, it was like, ‘No. Daddy, don’t pick me up. I don’t want you get hurt again,’ you know? So then it was like she didn’t even want me, you know, she was, like, scared for me to play and pick her up and start playing around just because she didn’t want to see me go through that ever again. She didn’t know what caused it or, you know, or really the situation, you know? So it definitely – I mean, it pulled at you for a while, and it was hard to get through, you know? It just – time time took care of it. but yeah, I was pretty down for a while, that’s for sure.

JM: That’s amazing because I’m not going to lie – I was watching this on TV and I was getting emotional, and I didn’t even know the whole back story, but like, I mean, those tears as you were holding her in your in your arms, it had to be all of this, right? Like there was a point where I couldn’t even pick you up. Now you see me in a fight, you see me victorious. I’m here holding you. That the had to all be rushing through your mind at that moment.

Zak Cummings: It was everything I was. I was like, you know, I’m going to hold this together. I’m good. Then I saw her and I lost it. Yeah. I might be a big, tough guy, but man, with that? When it comes to family and those kids, yeah man, it pulls the emotion out of me pretty quick. I’ve got a big heart, and I don’t mind showing it, but that’s the fastest way to pull it out.

JM: I get it, man. As a fellow dad, man, when it’s your kids, it changes everything. It’s nuts. So the really cool thing on top of all that – I mean, dream scenario, dream retirement, amazing moment. You get the unofficial ‘Fight of the Night,’ as well. I mean, certainly, you know, $50,000 isn’t going to allow you to never work again, but it doesn’t hurt. So I guess how did you find out about that? Like when did you find out you had this extra money coming your way?

Zak Cummings: So after the fight, you know, it was bittersweet, right? It was obviously a great night, and stuff and running around, I had to do some medicals and go do a couple of interviews, and then, I got pulled into a room, and it was the room that Dana was in there watching the fights in. So Dana had me and Ed come in and, you know, gave us hugs. Thank you for, you know, all the time and and everything we’ve ever done, you know? And it was just kind of nice to have that face time with him, and he mentioned it then that he was going to he was going to give us some money, a little retirement gifts and stuff. You know, as great as I felt, I was also was in the room with Ed and see him kind of break down and, you know, not the way he wants to go out, and I don’t blame him at all, so it was it was difficult to watch that because, like, I respect the hell out of him man. He’s a great dude. He’s a true warrior. You know, we’re we’re two of the last of a dying breed in the sport, and losing two of us in one night was was hard, you know? Yeah, it was tough watching him and stuff, but yeah, I mean, obviously some, some extra money, it was nice, Feel a little bit appreciated and stuff, and it was it was a nice gift, for sure.

JM: No doubt. Isn’t this the weirdest sport, Zak? I mean, you two guys are going out there trying to beat the hell out of each other, knock each other unconscious, and then it’s over, and you’re like, ‘Come here, bro. I feel bad for you, man. Let me take care of you.’ This is the weirdest sport, is it not?

Zak Cummings: I mean, I’ve said it. I said it the whole week. I was joking around with, like, my coaches and corner, you know, because we hugged, like, all week, you know? We’re joking around like, you know, being in line for interviews and he’s just my kind of dude, man. I just, I really respect him, and he’s similar to me – owns a gym, owns a fight promotion. You know, we’ve been doing this for a long time. He’s been doing it for well longer even, which is crazy, you know? And then, yeah, I mean, the whole time we’ve just been was cool, you know, give each other a hug at weigh-ins, but that’s how I am, you know? I’m going to be respectful. I’ll hug you. Do not care you know? I’m still going to try and knock your head off in the cage, and then the second it’s over, like, you know, we can have a drink. We can hug. I’ve got a big heart, man. I can share the love. So, yeah, I know not everybody’s that way, you know, but I very much – I love this sport, and it’s very much of a sport to me, and I treat it that way and, you know, obviously there’s a there’s a battle during the fight, but before and after, like, you know, it’s just another day and stuff. I know how hard they worked and how bad they wanted it, because I know where my mindset’s at, you know? So you’ve got to kind of feel for someone when they come up short a little bit.

JM: Yeah, much respect, man. That’s how the sport was built, dude. So you touched on it, man. I guess life now, I mean, still a promoter, still a gym owner. I mean, will you still train just to keep at it, or what is life like for you now?

Zak Cummings: Yeah, I don’t know if I’ll be a good person without training. Every once – it’s just kind of nice. You have a bad day, and go get some sparring in and stuff. So, yeah, I mean, obviously we’ll see how things go. I mean, I’ve as we got the gym going and stuff, you know, we’ve got a lot of good smaller guys. You know, there’s not a ton of big guys around, so you know, if my guys need another big body to work with and stuff and help them get ready for fights, then obviously I’ll be a main partner for people and do what we got to do. I mean, you know, I’m still able to do this. I mean, my body’s definitely been through some stuff. But yeah, I mean, I plan on training, you know, maybe pay attention to as much as I spar and stuff and maybe just, you know, focus on more jiu-jitsu. I don’t know what It’ll be, but yeah, I’ll be in the gym every day. Still training these guys, coaching, run the gym, just continue to build that side of things and the fight promotion and, you know, we have a great regional show, and I’m going to keep trying to build it and make it into something, you know, see how far we go with it. I don’t know. Like I said, this sport’s my life, and that’s not changing. I’m not going anywhere. I just might be seen behind the scenes in the backend of of things a little bit more.

JM: I love it, man. Well, you have certainly paid your dues to be a part of the sport for the rest of your life, so, Zak, I’ll just say thank you for the time. Congratulations on a phenomenal fight, Man, That really was a fun fight, and a great career, man. It’s awesome that you got to end it on your terms, man. So few people get to do that, and I really do think that was cool that you recognize the dream scenario, walked away, but not walking away from the sport, man. So I’m sure we’ll talk again soon, whether it be as a coach or a promoter or anything, but in the meantime, congratulations on a great career, man.

Zak Cummings: Absolutely. Thank you so much.