Manager Alexei Zhernakov: ‘Russia is the new Brazil’

This is number eighty-two in Jack’s series of interviews with MMA fighters and personalities, and for this particular interview, we’re pleased to feature MMA manager, Alexei Zhernakov. Zhernakov is a key figure in Russian MMA and he is the vice-president of the RusFighters Sports Club. His vast team of Russian fighters includes Bellator star, Alexander Shlemenko. Zhernakov has many hopes and desires for the future of Russian MMA, and the land that brought us the great Fedor seems to have some possibilities on the horizon. Please enjoy the conversation below.

Jack Brown: You were born in St. Petersburg, Russia, in the late 1970s. Growing up, when did martial arts first get your attention?

Alexei Zhernakov: I was always interested in different forms of martial arts. Growing up, I trained Sambo and a little bit of boxing. I always enjoyed watching boxing, wrestling, and Sambo events. There is something very empowering when you feel confident that you can physically protect your close ones and yourself. Besides, athletes, especially those who did combat sports, were always respected, and I enjoyed that. 

When I was on the first course in University, back in 1994, I watched the UFC 6 event, an 8-man tournament that Oleg Taktarov won, and it stirred a sense of national pride. And since then, MMA has captured my mind. I started to collect VHS tapes with UFC events. I bought everything I could get in my home city of St. Petersburg. Then I started to trade tapes with other fans from all over the world. I liked Pride, 2H2H, almost all the shows that took place back then. I also got to know some fighters, managers, and journalists, and it was a fun hobby for me.

The fact that I got a chance to study in the U.S. also helped a lot. Not only language-wise, but it also helped me to understand the Western mentality and way of doing things much better. And I have to say, the difference in mentality and understanding, between Russia and the U.S., not just in business, but even in basic situations, is very large. Here is a very basic example. When foreign fighters arrive in Russia to take part in MMA events, they are met right at the gates of the airport, before or right after getting their luggage. This is like a tradition, a sign of hospitality, to meet guests as early as possible. In the U.S. it is different. When athletes and their corners arrive, they have to get their luggage, then go outside the airport, and wait for the pick-up there sometimes for over an hour. Taking into consideration the size of most U.S. airports, and the numbers of levels of parking there are, it pretty often confuses not only Russian, but all European guys, when they arrive. So an inexperienced traveler could get the wrong impression that Americans are rude, that they don’t care, and that they’re not good hosts. However it is not the case. It is just a different understanding of a similar situation.

And it is a similar situation with hosting fighters. When we hold MFP events in Russia, we treat fighters as guests. We take them to different restaurants for meals, and each group of fighters has a personal driver who takes them to get groceries, go shopping, or to just show them around the city. If they need anything, they just tell him, and he will get it for them. And there’s always an after-party in the best night clubs of the cities where we hold events. In the U.S., everything is strictly professional. Fighters get their schedules, per diem money, and they’re on their own. They must be present at activities listed in schedules and everything else is their business/problem. I’m not saying which way is better. Both ways have their good and bad sides. But if you’re aware of these things, and if you’re familiar with differences in perceptions of different nations, you can be comfortable in both cases. And this is one of our goals, either when we host American fighters in Russia, or when we bring Russian fighters to the U.S. We want to make them feel comfortable as much as possible.

JB: You eventually got your PhD in economics in 2002. How did you come to decide that promoting fights and managing fighters was something that you wanted to do for a career?

AZ: I realized that there were a lot of really talented MMA athletes in Russia, but there was no such thing as fighter representation. Fighters found themselves in positions where they were just taking fights occasionally, without any kind of career-building structure. Athletes were taken advantage of by unscrupulous promoters quite often.

I got a chance to work on a few jobs that were closer to the education that I received, but these were just jobs. Every time I got a chance I tried to keep up with the events happening in the MMA world. Then I thought to myself, I will be spending approximately 10 hours per day working for many years. I should spend them doing something I love. So it was just a matter of time before I became an MMA manager.

Now I’ve been in this business for ten years. And I can say that even though I’m busy 12-18 hours per day, I do not work for one hour, because I’m doing what I love. I enjoy not only the results of my work, but the whole process.

JB: You are the vice-president of the RusFighters Sports Club. Your fighters include Bellator star, Alexander Shlemenko. What more can you tell us about RusFighters?

AZ: A group of my friends and I decided to form RusFighters Sport Club. We had different backgrounds and different types of education – economics, law, sports – but all of us were huge MMA fans. We decided to create a company that would scout for talent, help develop it, and create career opportunities. Most importantly, our policy would be 100% open and honest relationships with athletes. It was important for us to make a team with fighters that would help us to develop and grow.

What I have learned is that often the biggest hurdle is protecting the fighters from themselves, and shielding them from people who make false promises and create false hopes. So far our policy has proven to be successful. There were so many instances when we had to step up to protect the interests of fighters that we represent. Once, a few years ago, there was an event in Bulgaria. It was supposed to be the first edition of a new promotion. It was going to be an 8-man, one night, heavyweight tournament. The promoters contacted me, and I brought five heavyweight fighters to that event. All of them were from different European countries – Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, Poland, etc. The promoters presented themselves as very wealthy people, owning a lot of real estate all over the world, including a large villa where we all stayed and where the event was supposed to be held. Since I never dealt with these promoters before, I told them that I have to receive the fight money one day before the show. They said, Okay. Well, there was no money the day before the event. The promoters were saying something like, There was a mistake at the bank. The money will be brought to you tomorrow in the morning. I said, Okay, but unless I have the requested amount of money in my hands before the show, none of the fighters I brought will step in the ring. 

So the next day came, and the money was not there, not in the morning and not one hour before the show. It was an open-air, VIP type of event, so all these politicians, businessmen, and gangsters from the area came and took their seats. The fighters were nervous, of course. I told them not to even start warming up until I say that everything is okay. So it is one hour past the supposed beginning of the show, and the public starts to get nervous. The promoters are running around, saying that money is on the way, and asking fighters to get in the ring. I told my guys, If they’re not paying you now, when they need you, then for sure they won’t pay you after you fight, because they won’t even need you then. One of the local guys that I knew, a businessman/criminal type of guy, came to me and asked what’s going on. I told him that the promoters are having financial problems. He asked me to bring him to the promoters, and that he would try to help solve this by maybe loaning the promoters cash and taking the real estate or maybe a car for collateral. Well, after about three minutes of talking to the promoters he came to me and said, These guys don’t have nothing. Zero. They sold tickets thinking that they would be able to cover everything from the gate money, but they don’t have enough. And I have to add that some of the fighters even bought tickets themselves after being told that they would be reimbursed upon arrival. One of my colleagues and I confronted the promoters, explained the situation to them, and got money for tickets, visas, and minimal fight purses, for all of our guys, out of the gate money. We had to rush, because the public became mad, and started to come to the promoters demanding their money back. The funny thing was that after that, the promoters were hiding behind us, thinking that we would be defending them from the angry Bulgarians for some reason.

The summary of this story is that even though the fighters didn’t get the chance to fight, we were at least able to reimburse them for their travel expenses and they received a minimal amount of purse money. Plus, they had a few vacation days on the shore of the sea. There are many stories from the beginning of my career as an MMA manager, stories of when I had to literally chase promoters at night after an event to get my fighters’ money. It was all a learning experience, and very important, I would say.

We started from the scratch, having only one computer, a stack of paper, and a great desire to do our best to make everything work and to become the best at what we do. We didn’t have any financial backing, no real connections, and no contracted fighters. So everything we achieved has been due to good planning, clear goals, hard work, and playing as a team.

Later on, we started to promote our own MMA shows, co-promote with other events, consult on MMA shows, do TV deals, PR, work with sponsors, etc. We grew our international relationships and the list of our services keeps growing. I can say that we cover practically all aspects of MMA today.

JB: How does promoting fights in Russia compare with how it is done in the U.S., and what have been the highlights of the events that you have been involved with in Russia thus far?

AZ: Even though I think that the promoting of MMA events in different countries is similar, there is still a big difference between U.S. events, especially big ones, and events in Russia. The cultural way of doing business in the two counties is so different. I am fortunate to have been educated in both countries. So I have a general understanding, but I recognize the significant hurdles many face as they try to use Western principles in Russian market places. In Russia, MMA is still a much lesser known sport, and even though it is growing fast, it is still not considered to be a mainstream sport like soccer or ice hockey. In Russia, we trail the U.S. development by about 10 years, and in my estimation, we are where the UFC was just prior to TUF 1.

Another difference is that in the U.S. the number of TV channels, including those broadcasting MMA, is greater. In Russia we have only Russia 2, which is a large federal sports channel, Fighters Club, a satellite channel associated with Russia 2, and VGTRK group of channels. Even though the amount of MMA programming is growing rapidly, it is still impossible to fit everything Russian MMA promotions produce into the limited amount of air time.

Yet another difference would be the sources of revenue. For big U.S. promotions it can be pay-per-view, money paid by TV stations for broadcasting events, the gate, sponsors, merchandise. In Russia, there is no technology to make a pay-per-view. TV generally does not offer the amount of money that would be enough to cover the promoter’s expenses. So that leaves only the gate and sponsors. It would be safe to say that when a Russian MMA event breaks even, it is considered to be good. If it makes a little bit of money on top of that, it is considered to be great. Our hope lies in cultivating Russian sponsorships because of consumer demand. This is an area that we can be competitive in, and even exceed the U.S. markets.

Unfortunately, all that I’ve mentioned above leaves much less money for fighters. Promotions simply can’t afford to pay top-level fighters the numbers that would be close to what they would be getting fighting on big stages in the U.S. There can be exceptions, of course. A sponsor or promoter could be an MMA fan, and he might put a large amount of money into a promotion, event, or one of the fighters, for reasons of his own, like fame or pride. But such investments won’t return him his money. This is why the top Russian talent leaves to compete in Western MMA promotions.

JB: Who are some of the Russian fighters that you think are on the verge of becoming internationally recognized in MMA?

AZ: I think most of the fighters who have the potential to become internationally recognized stars are already signed with big-time U.S. promotions. Most often, we represent their interests. Alexander Storm Shlemenko, Andrey Spartan Koreshkov, Alexander Drago Volkov, Vitaly Minakov, Alexander Tiger Sarnavskiy, Akop Sniper Stepanyan, Frodo Khasbulaev, Sergej Grecicho, and the list goes on. Khabib Nurmagomedov has also shown great results in the UFC, but he’s not being represented by us. 

I believe that Russian MMA athletes have everything that it takes to become top-level MMA athletes and to become Champions. They have good technique, good skills, and, most importantly, they generally have a very good warrior’s spirit that helps them to overcome obstacles in life, maintain their training, and compete during the fight. For the most part, top Russian fighters do not have vices. They do not drink, fraternize, or do drugs. They have a different kind of focus that might be because they appreciate and want to maximize the opportunities abroad. We help them by providing a high level of representation and by getting them training in the best MMA camps that the U.S. can offer with the best coaches and sparring partners. So taking into consideration their level of dedication, I think that the success of our guys is only just beginning.

Speaking of the level of determination and a warrior’s spirit, during one of our training camps in Orange County, we were watching some MMA event on TV with my fighters together with our American friends. One of the fighters who fought on the card had a cut and took a beating, and our friends kept saying how tough he is. Shlemenko was watching the fight, being silent, as usual. So one of the guys turned to him and asked for his opinion. Shlemenko said, You think this is tough? When I fought Pele for the second time, I broke both of my hands in multiple places in the first round, and I kept fighting for two more rounds. That was tough. When I fought Jared Hess in Bellator, I almost ripped his leg off applying an ankle lock. Then we both fell on his leg when I caught him with a flying knee during the takedown attempt. His leg was barely holding on by the skin, yet he kept fighting. He tried to step on it and he didn’t want to quit. That was tough.

JB: How are MMA’s major foreign promotions, like Bellator and the UFC, viewed and received in Russia?

AZ: Bellator is being broadcast live on Russia 2, with multiple re-runs, and it’s showing very good ratings. I can say that during almost a year when Bellator was on Russia 2, the level of the promotion’s recognition increased dramatically. Now, not only every MMA fan, but all the combat sports fans in Russia know what Bellator is. People follow it because the top Russian guys are fighting there.

The UFC is also very well-known in Russia, but it doesn’t have any TV exposure. It is still considered the world’s largest promotion by MMA fans and the UFC is being followed closely on the internet. In short, Russian MMA fans are watching the UFC and Bellator very closely and both promotions are very well-known here.

The demise of Strikeforce was unfortunate because Russian MMA fans really loved the production of the Showtime events. While the presence of Fedor was a catalyst, of course, the Showtime production was very appealing and popular. The production was even better than the UFC’s in my opinion. As a matter of fact, it was the first time when live MMA events with world-class production were broadcast on Russian national television. Another reason for the popularity of Strikeforce was their willingness to employ top international fighters. That made their events even more intriguing for Russian fans.

JB: The UFC has made it known that they wish to enter the Russian market and hold events there. In fact, at the beginning of 2013, Dana White announced that there would be an event there this year. What do you think the future will hold for the UFC in Russia?

AZ: It is hard to make predictions here. The UFC is a very large company with enough resources to make an event almost anywhere in the world. However, they are businessmen first of all. So building up a market for them before making events would be logical. Taking into consideration their strategy in other counties, such as Canada, Australia, Great Britain, Sweden, Germany, and China, they usually make sure that their content is being shown on major TV channels for some time and showing ratings that would satisfy them. This is to make sure that an event will be financially successful. Russia would be a new market for them. They don’t have TV exposure here yet. The level of popularity of MMA is growing, but it is still far from the U.S. level. The time zone is very different, and there is not the technology for pay-per-view here yet.

So my educated guess would be that they will explore this market first. Maybe they will pay a few visits, have a PR campaign, and then start working with the Russian market step by step, the same way they do with other countries. Unless they can get some X resource here that nobody is aware of. I am told that ZUFFA is very set in their ways, but it would probably be advisable for them to use people that have Russian business experience to help them transition. But that is just my opinion.

JB: When did you begin to spend more time in the U.S., and who have you partnered with here to help with your endeavors?

AZ: In 2008, I realized that I needed a representative for my club in the U.S. So in 2009, I started to search for such a representative. I wanted my club and my fighters to be represented on the highest possible level in the U.S. I looked through the biggest agents and managers, and I found out that Ken Pavia would be able to provide us what I was looking for. He had a no-nonsense approach and fought for his clients even when it proved to be to his own detriment. We respected that. So in the beginning of 2010, through a mutual friend, we finally met in Finland, where Ken represented Sean Salmon, and I was there with Alexander Shlemenko. We spoke, and found out that not only we could we offer each other a lot from a business point of view, but we also got along really well as people. So we started working together, and for a while I worked as an affiliate of Ken’s MMA Agents agency in Russia. He helped us a lot with U.S. representation until he sold his business. While I learned that many people make promises, Ken has always delivered. He opened his home to us, and became a coach and advisor to the RusFighters outside the agent realm. Now we work on many other international MMA-related ventures. He and I have considerable international connections, and he employed RusFighters’ athletes while being the CEO of the Super Fight League. It is my hope that someday we will get a similar opportunity in the U.S. He has a deep understanding of fighter relations and has experience.

JB: From your perspective, what are the issues and concerns that are most important in the sport of MMA moving forward?

AZ: From a Russian vantage point, I would like to see international opportunities for our fighters. I believe that Russia could be a key component to the globalization of the sport of MMA. The sport has made me realize that the world is a small place, and MMA brings all people together in competition. Other issues and concerns would be for proper regulation that would include medical and safety provisions. Then we must also overcome the basic perceptions of pure violence, and like you have done in the U.S., instill a proper understanding that this is a sport. Presently, Russia lacks a formalized developmental system for training and preparing top-level MMA athletes. I believe there are opportunities in that realm as well. Quality international MMA programming also helps advance the sport. Strikeforce on Showtime was very popular in Russia. I really hope Showtime re-enters the marketplace. Even though there is a large quantity of MMA programming with Bellator and the UFC, in my humble opinion, with some creative concepts there is room for another major player. Russian fans miss the MMA that was produced by Showtime. 

JB: Last question, Alexei, and thanks for taking the time to do this. You are a very young man still. What plans or goals do you have for the future?

AZ: I always have had ambitious goals, but most importantly, our team has always tried to work on strategies that would allow us to achieve such goals. And so far we have been successful at it. I want to bring MMA in Russia to a level close to the U.S. so that Russian MMA events will be expected, viewed, and discussed all over the world. I want to help Russian MMA turn into a real industry, where all sides including promoters, fighters, agents, and managers will be able to put on great events, great fights, and make a good living out of what they’re doing. I want Russian MMA fans to be able to watch world-class MMA events on a regular basis on the territory of Russia. I want Russian MMA athletes to be top-ranked in all weight classes, the same way American and Brazilian fighters are today. I believe, in this sport, Russia is the new Brazil.

Thank you so much for reading and please follow Alexei Zhernakov and Jack Brown on Twitter.

Visit JackJohnBrownMMA on Facebook for links to all of Jack’s past interviews. Previous interviews include: Dan Hardy, Rose Namajunas, Joe Lauzon, War Machine, Tom Lawlor, Bas Rutten, Chris Leben, Phil Baroni, Julie Kedzie, Michael Bisping, Duane Ludwig, Sara McMann, Matt Lindland, Duke Roufus, Pat Miletich, Jens Pulver, Dan Severn, Nate Quarry, Ken Shamrock, Matt Serra, Jeremy Horn, Ray Longo, and dozens more.

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